Jul 15, 2019
Combating Social Isolation with Ben Stokes
In our debut podcast episode of 9 To Survive we speak to Ben Stokes. He's the CEO of Social Table. An online platform that let you connect with you new people offline, one meal at a time. Ben touches on how the idea came about, his journey as a first-time business owner and where he sees the business grow.
For more about Ben and Social Table, follow his journey below:
Follow Ben on Social Table: https://www.instagram.com/socialtable.co/
More about Social Table: https://www.socialtable.co/
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- And it's hard, but you know, at the end of the day, you've just got to keep pushing, and if you really believe in the product or what you're building or what your dreams are for your company, then that's what gets you through.
- You're listening to the 9 to Survive podcast where we speak to the most inspiring entrepreneurs of Australia. I'm your host, Alex Whiteside, the CEO of Easy Companies. Running your own business can be quite daunting and scary. We're here to show you how to face those fears and help you build your dream today. We listen to the innovators, the gamechangers, and the thought leaders who built their startups from the ground up, hear what makes them tick, how they've overcome their own barriers, and be inspired to take your own leap of faith and ignite your passion for business. I'm here today with Ben Stokes, the founder and CEO of SocialTable. SocialTable is an app that Ben created out of his own passion and desire to help people meet one another and get offline and really get a sense of connection and genuine, authentic connection. So SocialTables runs events all across Australia in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide, and they're soon to be in New York. So on today's show, we'll hear about how Ben faces many of his challenges and managed to get the business to where it is in that recently a U.S. venture firm has invested in SocialTable. Thanks for joining, Ben.
- [Ben] No problem.
- It's great to have you on the 9 to Survive podcast, and thanks for coming in. And look, it would be really good to kind of start off and just try to understand, like, where you got the idea for SocialTable 'cause it sounds like a fantastic idea.
- [Ben] Yeah, sure.
- So where did that come from?
- Yeah, so SocialTable was an idea that I guess I personally needed myself, so I was living overseas for four years, and while I was there, all of my friends started getting married and having kids, which is awesome for them. Like, I think that's great, but what that meant was that our Friday night dinners turned into Saturday mornings in the park. And I guess the problem with that is that I still liked to go out for dinner, and you know, maybe get drunk every now and then, and that sort of changed. The party changed with my group of friends. And so I realized that, okay, well, I still want to meet people, and then as an adult, it's like it's hard. How do you do that? So I struggled initially to work out where to meet people. You know, I tried dating apps, but that wasn't really my purpose or intention. And then I tried Meetup, but that also didn't work either because people weren't really showing up. They were saying they were going but weren't necessarily there. So then after that, I did a bit of research and realized that I wasn't the only person who felt like this, that parties had changed, and groups of friends, and I wanted to meet people. So from there, yeah, I set it up based off that.
- That's awesome, so how long ago did you start this?
- So our first event was on January 12th, 2018.
- [Alex] Oh, so not that--
- Not that long ago.
- A year and a half ago.
- A year and a half ago, yeah.
- Well, okay, and what was the first event like?
- Yeah, so the first event actually quite random. So this was my tester event, I suppose you would say. I got six or actually seven friends from different parts of my life to go to dinner, and I organized it all and said I was going to be there, and I didn't show up. And so it was seven people that had the inner connection with me, but weren't necessarily part of that. And then I sent out an email before, which is what I do now at every event, with everyone's first name and just random facts about the group, and their job was to find out who the random fact belonged to over dinner. And so that sort of helped bring the group together. So they also had a good time, and then that was how I was able to get some research about, okay, well, can people go to dinner with people they don't know if they've got some sort of common connection?
- So you literally just connected just random people?
- Yeah.
- Put them in a room. It's like a social experiment. Put them in a room together.
- [Ben] Social experiment, yep.
- And just saw how it kind of worked out.
- Exactly.
- [Alex] Did you film it or anything?
- Didn't film it, but I really wish I had been a fly on the wall, to be honest.
- [Alex] Yeah, true. That's what I was thinking, to just observe it.
- But I decided that I would completely do this, completely random, so I actually wasn't even around at that point, so I was overseas at the time, and so I got these people together to do that.
- What was the feedback from that first event?
- The feedback was that they were surprised at how easy it was to talk to people they had never met before. And then they also, like, said that, you know, it was great because they wouldn't have done it. They were completely outside of their comfort zone, but they felt safe because they all had me as a common connection, so.
- True, so it would have been a dinner party just everyone talking about you, right?
- Well, yeah, I mean--
- Potentially.
- Obviously everyone likes to be talked about. No, I'm kidding. No, it was more that, you know, they were set up in every single way not to have to worry about me being there or not being there, and you know, I told them all about what my idea was anyway beforehand in terms of what the concept of the company was, and then they kind of were part of the initial group.
- Was the company running at that stage, or was this--
- Not really, it was kind of--
- That was like what we would call like an MVP, right? Like test it, try out the concept?
- Yeah, I guess you could say that. I feel like, you know, we're still, I guess, going through phases of understanding our customers. I feel like now we're at a point a year and a half later where we understand, okay, well, what works, what doesn't work, why it doesn't work, how do we best connect people, et cetera.
- [Alex] Yeah, okay.
- Yeah.
- That's an interesting way to start off the business, though, I mean. That's what I would always recommend to founders. Like, test out their prototype. Just get it out there before they build the whole business around it.
- 100%, like, you know, what's his name, you know? Try fast, fail fast.
- That's it, yeah.
- And if you don't know that you've got something that works or doesn't work, keep trying until you get, like, a nice recipe for it, and then keep going.
- And you would have got instant feedback off that to help you build the brand.
- Completely.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, like, I'm a massive believer in feedback and using that feedback to help dictate where I take the company further, and particularly with customers, you know. They are, for me, the people that are buying the product. Do they like the product? Why do they like it? Getting that feedback constantly allows me to create a product that people really love and understand their motivations behind why they're actually liking my product as well.
- Yeah, so after every SocialTable event, do you put out like a feedback survey?
- I do, absolutely.
- [Alex] Gather that feedback.
- Yeah, absolutely, so after every meal that we do, we send out a feedback form where people tell, you know, what they liked, what they didn't like, what they thought about the food, what they thought about the restaurant, but then also what they thought about the concept of SocialTable itself. And then they're able to give feedback on if there was a particular issue or problem that came up, and then beyond that, they are able to then put in their data to actually share with the rest of their group again as well. So it's a good way to make sure that people do feedback as well. And then they give that feedback to me.
- And that's helped you, like, evolve the brand of the business?
- Yeah, absolutely. So I think, you know, one thing I realized was about price. So pricing different options and making people felt like it covered a larger scale. So when I first started the business, I was thinking it was gonna be based around more fine dining options, and then I realized that the food actually is secondary to what I do. That's not the purpose of why people are coming to SocialTable. They're coming to meet others, so I needed to broaden that out from, you know, thinking that people were gonna spend $100 on every meal to being our cheapest event is $35. Our most expensive event is $165. So giving people a really broad range.
- Just in case they do like that fine dining option.
- Yeah, absolutely, but remembering that they're not there for that, necessarily. That's an experience that they like, but it's not the whole purpose. The whole purpose mainly is because they want to meet people.
- Yeah, they want to make that connection.
- [Ben] Exactly.
- What would they expect from a SocialTable event? Like, what do you think most people would be looking for?
- Yeah, most people will say that they are there to meet people. So that's the main reason, and the second reason is because of the food options. You know, I've got a pretty big spread about why people come. You know, it could be because they're newly relocated to a new city, or they're traveling. It could be because they're there to make business connections, meeting new friends, or alternatively, they are there to find someone to call that special someone. But we make it very clear that we're not a dating app. We are for whatever reason that you want to show up, and we're more about connections, and if dating happens, that's awesome, but that's not the purpose of going.
- So people can just rock out with any. Like, any reason.
- Yeah.
- Just to make that social connection.
- [Ben] Exactly.
- It doesn't have to be justified, right?
- Exactly.
- That's awesome.
- And I think that that makes it because if it was a dating app or a dating product, I find that people come with expectation, and with expectation, it will 100% let you down, whereas if you come there with no agenda, you will be pleasantly surprised every time you go.
- That's awesome. It sounds like a good setup.
- [Ben] Thanks.
- And I think it was a pity I wasn't able to make a SocialTable event. I was looking to go, but I'm sure that will happen in the future.
- Yeah, absolutely.
- [Alex] It does sound like an incredible business.
- [Ben] Thank you.
- I love meeting new people, so.
- [Ben] Thanks, yeah, I appreciate it a lot.
- Yeah, that's good, and, like, is this your first time running a business?
- [Ben] It is, yeah.
- [Alex] Yeah, so how does that feel
- So I'll tell you honestly. I have no idea what I'm doing but--
- That's good. It's better than knowing what you're doing.
- But I must admit, I have never learnt so much in my entire life than starting this. I learned a lot about, you know, not only what people need and how to operate a business, but also what I'm personally capable of, and I think that that has really given me a lot of confidence going forward as well. I've made, you know, plenty of mistakes, and I'm not ashamed of that either. I think one of the things that those mistakes have taught me is that, okay, this is what I need to do now and this is how I can fix it, and this is what I now have learned for future as well.
- Yeah, that's right. Like, what do you think some of the biggest... Like, what would you say the biggest challenges you faced were during the business that you said you made a few mistakes?
- Sure, I think some of the mistakes I've made is, I guess, putting a lot of pressure on people, on other people. I think for me, like, as a founder, you know, I think you start to realize that not everybody's gonna love your product as much as you do and not gonna be as passionate about it as you are. And so it's getting to a point where you then have to learn, okay, well, what are people going to... What's gonna make somebody passionate about your product? And why?
- Do you mean the team or the customers?
- The team, but then also the customers as well. So you know, customers, they love it, but then at the same time, if there's something they don't like, making sure like I said about feedback, getting that feedback so I can change things. So I think that has been something I've learned, and so a challenge for me in that has been, you know, remembering that this is a business, not me as a person that people necessarily always get challenges with as well. And so going outside of that, and going, okay, well, what are the things that the business needs to do better so that I can then continue to grow it?
- Yeah, so you feel the biggest challenge for yourself is being as a founder, like, learning to kind of be a leader, would you say?
- Yeah, so it's been about being a leader, but it's also, I guess, being able to separate myself from the business as well, because you've got to remember to do that. Otherwise, you take on a lot of the criticism personally when it's not actually you that's being criticized. It's the business itself.
- Yeah, I know, yeah. That's it, I mean, how do you? What techniques are you using to separate yourself from the business?
- Yeah, well, I guess I went into this and described SocialTable as an extension of my personality in a lot of ways because SocialTable, you know, I love meeting new people, and I love experiences and going out to dinner. But that's not my personality. It's not me as a person, and there's so much more to me than that. So realizing that this is just a business that has to put in structure, that has to put in these certain bits and pieces to make sure that the end result is a good result. So being able to understand what takes that to happen. And then for myself, just making sure that I take out time for myself when I need it as well. So you know, like, being a start founder has its challenges as everyone knows, and you know, you've got to make sure that you do look after yourself.
- It's a big topic right now, isn't it? Burnout.
- Yeah.
- Ben was talking about it.
- I can tell you I've felt it, and I know it exists, and it's hard, and I'm very thankful I've got a lot of great support around me that sort of got me through some of those times. But you know, at the end of the day, you've just got to keep pushing, and if you really believe in the product or what you're building or what your dreams are for your company, then that's what gets you through
- Well, that's what I always say burnout is, like a test of faith. Like, are you really committed to this business? And, you know, how far are you willing to go? It's not to push yourself or force it, but it's, you know--
- And you know, like, it takes time as well. I think that's the other thing. Like, you know, I went into it thinking, you know, it would be not necessarily as hard as what it has been in certain ways, but the challenges I've felt have made me realize that, you know, I am doing the right thing, and the feedback I'm getting shows me that as well.
- Yeah, so it's the little things that guide you along the way, isn't it?
- Yeah, absolutely.
- 'Cause there's no overnight success. You can go with any business. Every founder's been through it.
- You know, I think, you know, I'm in my early 30's and thinking that I should be better set up in my life than I am right now, but at the same time, like, you know, I've sacrificed a lot to create SocialTable, and now I'm starting to see the benefits of that as well.
- [Alex] Yeah.
- But I can tell you that it's definitely been challenging at times.
- Of course, and I mean, that's the thing. I mean, anyone looking to get into business, it is challenging, but would you say it's worth it in the end?
- 100%
- Yeah.
- Like, it makes me realize that I've created something that people actually want and need, and I think that that for me has been something I'm really proud of. And then on the other side of that, like, it has taught me that I've got so much more resilience than I ever thought possible. You know, I've been able to push through some of the hardest challenges I ever thought I'd ever face, and I'm now standing tall on the other side of that.
- That's it, and like, so you just landed, you signed before you landed, a U.S. Accelerator, right?
- [Ben] I did, yeah. I found out on Friday night.
- That's some pretty big news.
- [Ben] Yeah, it's amazing.
- Celebrations in the office?
- Yeah, absolutely, it's such an honor and a privilege to be able to say that I got picked out of 5,000 applicants to go, so there's only five people that got chosen.
- [Alex] Wow.
- Yeah, I'll be the next cohort of StartOut Growth Lab in San Francisco. This is a six month Accelerator, and yeah, it's kind of crazy-like to think that they chose me. But it also shows me that people are seeing this, why the problems I'm fixing is a larger problem globally not just a localized problem in Australia or what I felt for me.
- It's not just isolated here, is it?
- No, and I felt like, you know, when I started, I felt like it was just a problem I personally had but then I realized that more people have it, and then now I'm seeing it on a global scale. This is something that maybe I can help fix, and that would be a complete honor.
- Why do you think it is that they chose you? Like, five out of 5,000, it's a one in 1,000, you know, thing. Like, what do you think it is that they saw or the potential in your business that they saw?
- I think it's the fact that, so when I spoke to them about why they chose me, they said that they liked my drive and passion for helping fix a problem, but also they looked at understanding how I set up the business and looking at the business model I created and why it works and looking at, okay, is it something that can actually grow and scale effectively? And you know, they backed me, which is also kind of cool, so yeah.
- Is there any advice, like, just briefly, to put out there that anyone who's, like, looking to get into a U.S. Accelerator or just an Accelerator in general?
- Yeah, for sure, like, my advice is apply. The one thing that I was often scared about and often felt like I wasn't ready to do was to put my brand and put my name out there because I was nervous about it or shy or didn't back myself enough. And then this one, I found, I looked it up, and I was like, actually, you know what? I think I can get this. And I put in my application, and I worked really hard on making sure my application was very detailed. I don't think that they could miss anything that I was trying to put forward. And then I got an email to say that I had phone call with them, so I had, like, three phone calls, and then after that, I waited and waited and waited for any sort of form of them saying yes or no, and finally I got a yes. I got in, so yeah.
- That's awesome, yeah. So that's the vision of the company now, take it overseas and kind of global expansion in that sense.
- Yeah, absolutely. I think SocialTable isn't a localized problem, as I was saying, so isolation social is an issue here. It's an issue everywhere. In the U.K. and Canada, they both minister for loneliness in in the last 12 months, and that for me is a sign to say that people are feeling what I'm trying to fix. And so if I can start growing and scaling it so that more people can have the opportunity to meet others and connect, then I think that's my goal. You know, my vision for the company is that nobody should have to eat dinner alone if they don't want to.
- Yeah, I like that.
- And so if I can make it so that people feel like they've got an option, then I've won my goal, yeah.
- It's definitely more fun eating with other people.
- [Ben] Yeah, absolutely.
- I do like that self time, too, like, just going and sitting in a restaurant. Like, they're both good at certain times.
- Yeah, absolutely, and I think that that's the thing. Like, if you want that time by yourself, you absolutely take it, but if you don't want to sit alone, and you feel like there's no other option, I want to make sure that SocialTable is that in for you at the table.
- Yeah, that's nice. So, like, what? So the moment you decided you wanted to run SocialTable, what was going through your head? Like, were there fears? Did you ring your family? Like, what was that moment?
- Yeah, I didn't, to be honest. I had this idea that I just wanted to put out there that, you know, I felt like there were challenges that I was facing personally, and I felt like if I'm feeling this, other people would feel it as well. So I got some advice from other friends who were startup families. My friend Matt, for example, is in San Francisco. He is the founder of Scheduler. We're really close, and so I spoke to him a lot about it at that time, saying, "Okay, this is what I'm thinking. "What do you think about this? "How do you think I should set this up?" And sort of like, bounced a lot of ideas off him, and then also some other key advisors I have, Kelly for example. She was a mentor from a business point of view, and I spoke to her a lot about it as well, and so she's now one of my key advisors in the company, and so for her, it was all about understanding, okay, well, what works, what doesn't work, why, and she challenges me a lot on that.
- So there weren't any, like, major fears that you had in terms of starting the business?
- Challenges and fears, like, so, I've been living in San Francisco for two years, so I'd been working in startups for some time, and so for me, like, I understood a little bit about that and what those challenges were. I guess was I fearful? I guess it is scary, putting yourself out there. Like, you know, I haven't been paid in two years. You know what that's like. And so for that, looking at that, going okay, well, let's work out what that is and how to do that.
- Yeah, nice.
- So yeah, I guess, like, that's the biggest fear I've had is like, you know, feeling like I wasn't necessarily going to get it right, but at the same time, I'm the sort of person that flies by the seat of their pants anyway.
- [Alex] Yeah, so you just take it as it comes.
- [Ben] Yeah.
- That's a good attitude. So what would you say the biggest challenges, or the biggest challenge that you're facing on now, like, in the business?
- Yeah, for sure, so now it's about scaling and growing it. And so I have bootstrapped SocialTable to date, so I haven't had any funding yet. And that has been challenging, I suppose because it's almost like it's been limiting in a lot of ways. So now that we're in this process, we've been accepted in this Accelerator, our focus is to start fundraising heavily to make sure that we have the right product, the right fit, and then being able to market and scale it correctly. So yeah, that's the challenge right now is just making sure that we get that funding to be able to take us to the next step.
- Yeah, so that funding is gonna allow, like, the global expansion as you said.
- [Ben] Correct.
- And like, is U.S. the first step? Do you have visions? You said you have visions for this to go worldwide.
- Yeah, so we're gonna start with the U.S., so we've got San Francisco, New York, and L.A., so we already have events in San Francisco and New York happening now, and then outside of that, we're looking at Austin and Chicago and Florida because they're the next three major food points, and then from there, we'll be focusing on London, Hong Kong, and Singapore.
- Oh nice, so I mean, let's jump in further. I know that, I mean, many say that entrepreneurs are either born or they kind of learn along the way.
- Yeah, sure.
- Did you always have an entrepreneur passion when you were growing up? Like, what was your experience?
- So I didn't really know what I wanted to do when I grew up. I think I had to find that out. So it wasn't necessarily that I had this passion or goal straight away to do something like this, but I always knew that I had a purpose to do something that was bigger than what I am as well, so if that makes sense. So yeah, I guess I'm very fortunate. Like, I really not have had the most easiest backgrounds in terms of I was abandoned in a hospital when I was two months old, taken to an orphanage where I was from two months to 11 1/2, where I was adopted by people in Tassie where I grew up. My parents are awesome, but I'm very different from them as well. I grew up on a farm, and so, like, 1,000 acres of beef and dairy, and then, I am, like, intellectual, not at all a farm boy.
- Do they have a business mindset?
- Yeah, they definitely do. So my parents did rural property developments, so they'd buy rundown farms, do them up, and sell them for profit, which they do really well for themselves, which I'm really proud of, and I think that has given me that model of that mindset of working really, really hard, making a difference, and then being able to reap the rewards of that. And so I think that, from their point of view, helped me go to where I am now.
- How do they feel about you running your business now?
- Yeah, I think, you know, my parents, they're proud of me, for sure, but they do like the stability that comes from a normal job rather than a startup. You know, like, they also see that, you know, they've been really proud to see the achievements that I've made, and you know, like, last week I was in the Sydney Morning Herald, for example, and that, for them, you know, like, I was just written up in the biggest paper in the country. And for them, they were like, "Wow, that's pretty incredible." And they love what I do. They don't necessarily understand it, exactly.
- Have they been to a SocialTable event?
- No, they haven't, actually. But I think the thing is with my parents is they are very conservative and very quiet, and compared to me, who's completely outgoing, so yeah.
- Yeah, okay, so--
- But they are definitely people that I turn to and ask questions to a lot because, you know, they've done really well in business themselves.
- Yeah, nice, so that's good. I mean, would you say that you've hired a team now, right?
- [Ben] Yeah.
- You've got a team behind you.
- [Ben] That's correct.
- What would you say that the challenges you face in terms of being a founder, like a leader? Like, I know it can be quite challenging if you've never learnt those skills or even if you have. Like, displaying them. What would you say those are?
- Yeah, I think the biggest challenge, I think, is open communication and making sure that you have that at all times even in the good and bad. I think the other part of that is making sure that your team feels valued as well. Making sure that I, you know, like, I recognize hard work, and that we celebrate our achievements as a team. 'Cause I think that, you know, I know that it's not me that's making sure that this business operates all the time. It's a whole team of people behind me that are helping me push this business forward, and being able to recognize them is really important.
- Like, what are the things that you do to value the team?
- Sure so we go out to dinner a lot together, obviously. Drinks when people join the team. I make sure I send them a bottle of their favorite alcohol as a thank you, not to say that we drink a lot at SocialTable, but--
- Sounds like it.
- No, I also, you know, like, I make sure that I acknowledge them in, like, emails. At the end of each year, I send an email out and actually list what each person has done for me in the team in terms of advisors as well as people who are part of the team in an email that goes out to everyone, including other advisors as well.
- Yeah, nice, and what would you say, like, in terms of valuing the team, how do you find the right people to join the company culture?
- Yeah, it's all about, to be honest, for me, it's about feel. I'm using intuition based on that. Like, I've got to know that I'm gonna be able to get on with you. I also know that you're someone I can joke with, but then also someone that works hard as well. And I think finding those people isn't necessarily easy. Like, I've had people who've come in and have had big ideas about their understanding of what a startup is, and then realizing that actually, to actually being in a startup, it's not just about coming up with ideas. It's actually getting in and doing the hard work as well.
- So you're finding people who, your decision is an intuitive-based decision.
- [Ben] Yeah.
- [Alex] Do you use any other criteria?
- Yeah, sure, so when I was living in San Francisco, I worked for a company called Lever, which they have an applicant tracking system, and they are set up. It actually helps me a lot to understand, okay, what are the things they are looking for? Why are they looking for particular type of person? How do they go about that challenge? I get people to do, like, a preview or a sort of trial basis to show me what they are able to actually give me in return for what they're looking to do. I think that also gives me an idea about what they're capable of, and then whether or not they'll fit into the culture.
- Yeah, nice, and like, what message would you send to anyone, like, wanting to start a business?
- Yeah, sure, so I think the thing that my advice for you is to go out and give it a go. Make sure that you test it. Make sure that you test the market and you get feedback. Use that feedback to then make sure that you make those refinements to the product. Go back again, and then once you're happy, and you've got good feedback, then you can start pushing. I think the whole thing about making sure that you test and try the idea is so important because it's all about, you know, right product, right time, right fit. If you don't have that, then you're not necessarily ever gonna make it.
- Yeah, that's right.
- And, oh, I was going to say, don't be ashamed to fail. Like, it happens, and that's okay. But the learnings that you have from those fails are the things that will make you even better next time.
- How do you learn from your failures?
- I'm constantly learning from my failures, trust me. I think what I'm doing now is I'm making sure that I get that feedback, and that I put into practice the things that I messed up on.
- And what would you say are the things you're doing really right at SocialTable? Like, what's working really well or making the brand that it is today?
- Yeah, I think the thing that I'm doing is I'm getting that feedback, like I said, from the customers that are attending the events to making sure that I can change the product to be better based on their feedback. You know, as a founder, you've got two goals. You're there to, like, help use that feedback to change and refine the product, but at the same time, you're supposed to lead people into doing something they wouldn't necessarily do. And so being able to find balance between those has been what's made us successful.
- How would you say, like, timing in terms of the business is crucial?
- Yeah, absolutely, like, say, there was a company that did something similar to SocialTable about seven years ago in the U.S., but seven years ago, I don't think the challenges that people are facing today in terms of social isolation existed to the extent they do now. And so, you know, I think the timing of what we're doing now has been allowed us to be really successful.
- Nice, and are there any business leaders that you look up to or mentors or who helps and guides and inspires you along the way?
- Sure, so I've got a number of really key people in my life that I go to for advice constantly. Like, so, Vicki Potts, or Kelly King. I've got other people outside of that as well in the U.S. who I speak to constantly to help guide my business. Yeah, so I think those people have been really key in helping me get the business off the ground. Like, that coach, back, for example, in San Francisco has been an amazing leader that I've spoken to quite a lot.
- And what was the biggest learning from him?
- Biggest learning from him is, like, so, he's got a CTO background, so he's technology based, and his whole idea for me was to just keep pushing. I think one of the things in Australia versus the U.S. in terms of how you go about getting growth and getting your business out there, in the U.S., it's all about push, push, push, push, push. In Australia, it's mostly about proving the model first and then going about pushing it, whereas in the states, they've got more of a push first, make sure you get your name out there, and then prove that it works.
- I think that's because we're very risk-adverse in Australia.
- [Ben] We are very, very risk-adverse.
- The U.S. just seems to put money in anything. It's like, "Here's a million dollars. "Go and play around and see how it goes."
- Yep.
- To get a million dollars in Australia is a big challenge.
- It's a very big challenge, absolutely.
- Everybody wants to see, like, they almost want to know that they're guaranteed to see their money.
- [Ben] Yeah.
- In the U.S., it's like, "I'm gonna put a million dollars into 30 startups, "and I just know that one of those is gonna work."
- Yeah.
- Here, it's like, "I'd want to know that every one of those "I've, like, done my due diligence."
- Absolutely, and that's been a challenge I've had because my product isn't necessarily a B2B product. It's a B2C product, which is not necessarily how I've found most of the Australian investors are leaning towards. But however, you know, I've proven that I've got good margins. I've proven that it works. I've proven that I can make money, and that for me is the steps that I need to do to then be able to prove that I can do it not only here but also in the world as well.
- So as a founder, I know that, I mean, we've mentioned this before with burnout, but what's your morning routine, and what are the things that you do to keep stable as a founder, keep grounded, you know, make sure your mental health is in order? Do you have a practice, or?
- I really wish I could say I have something that's routine. My routine is I don't set an alarm. I wake up when my body wants to wake me up. That's usually around 6:30 or 7:00 in the morning anyway, which I'm grateful for. Depending on where I'm living, I'll try and watch the sunrise. That's really important to me.
- [Alex] Nice.
- That gives me some clarity. And then outside of that, I find that I get in, and I start doing emails first thing in the morning just so that I can pump out those until, like, eight o'clock, eight or nine o'clock in the morning, and then I'll start sending meetings and calls after that, and then by lunchtime, I go back and do emails again. So I kind of break my day up into blocks. If I don't do that, then I sort of get a little lost. Distracted.
- Yeah. And are there any mindfulness practices that you've implemented yourself or?
- Look, you know, like, I really believe in the whole mindfulness philosophy. The things that either I'm not very flexible, so yoga is one of those things. I'm about as inflexible with my body as I am in my personality. So I'm not so flexible in that, so yoga is not something I do, but being able to take the time to really be thankful and look at gratitude is one of the things that I really, really push for. And I think that that has been able to help me understand the things that I do well and the things that I'm really happy for with the business and then that also shows me some of the shortcomings that we've got, and that's where I sort of focus my time.
- Well, it's a practice. I mean, it teaches you patience, right? 'Cause as a founder, we often want to be here, but we're, you know, we want to be there, but we're here, and that wanting to be there creates a lot of tension, and that, in my observation, is that's what actually leads to burnout as a founder, just that not being patient enough, not letting it kind of take place.
- I think one of the other things that I've found is actually having a plan as well So if your goal, your very end goal is to get up here, you need to understand what each step is that you need to do along the way to get to that point. So breaking it up into blocks, being able to say, "Okay, I need to do this, this, and this "to get to the next stage, and from there, "I need to do this and this to get to the next stage, "and from that stage, I'll do this and this "to get to the next stage." Once you know or be able to map out that progress process for you and your business and your business goals, I think that then allows you to start being more focused because you can start ticking things off.
- Yeah, that's true, and I think, like, where would you say your biggest investment of time is in terms of the team, or is it marketing, or like?
- Yeah, for sure, so our biggest focus right now is doing marketing and doing that scaling and growing. Getting the word out there about the business. I think from a business model standpoint, I feel like we've worked really hard with some great restaurant partners to be able to get the product where it is now. And then the other factor is just getting more people knowing about it. So you know, we look at Facebook and Instagram. We have about 40% of our customers come from that, 25% from Google.
- 40% of your customers from Facebook and Instagram?
- [Ben] Yeah.
- That's--
- 25% from Google and 25% from word of mouth. So being about to push the word of mouth more so that we can start bringing down the cost we're spending on Facebook and Instagram, I think--
- Is that how you're advertising on those platforms, though?
- Not necessarily advertising too heavily. It's just being able to create more of a following on those platforms.
- Yeah, okay.
- Yeah.
- So it's a time investment.
- It's a time investment because each one of those things takes more time whereas using my customers who've had a great experience to be able to push more of their friends along to the events is an easier way for us to get the word of mouth around.
- Plus that's how we scale at Easy Company is through word of mouth.
- Yeah.
- Like, once you start building a good product, then, you know, the name gets out there, they tell their friends, and then those friends come and use it.
- Exactly, and the other thing that we want to start doing as a business is start focusing on our content as well and making sure that we are giving people sound content that they can use at our events as well.
- Like, what kind of content would entail?
- So stuff like, you know, what are the best conversation starters when you first meet people.
- That's interesting.
- Or looking at how not to be the person that sits there awkwardly at dinner. Or looking at how do you, you know, strike up a conversation without talking about work or without talking about how much, you know, where you live, et cetera. So it's all about trying to give people those easy ins and those easy wins so they can continue to be able to make it better for them.
- Yeah, making sure that everyone leaves, like, that everyone gets a part in that kind of experience, right?
- Exactly, exactly, and that's something that we're really focused on at our events is about being present and making sure that everyone is part of that.
- Yeah, nice, well, look, thanks for joining, Ben. Are there any other questions or any other things that you'd like to put out there to anyone starting a business?
- Yeah, like I said, like, it's all about hard work and making sure that you do focus on getting those quick wins for yourself to make sure that you know that the product is something that people want and need and getting feedback is the key to anyone's success.
- Yeah, well, nice, look, good luck with your journey in SocialTable.
- Thanks.
- And it will be interesting to see where the next, you know, nine to 12 months goes with this U.S. expansion.
- Yeah, well, fingers crossed that it goes where we think and believe it can.
- Okay, thanks for joining.
- [Ben] Thanks.
- Also if you haven't already, check out our YouTube channel. It's available under the Easy Company's account, and there will be a 9 to Survive playlist. So I hope you enjoyed this show and look forward to seeing you next time.
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